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Some thoughts and discussion
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| Sherclock | Date: Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 19:44:39 | Message # 1 |
 Coffee and cake specialist
User
Messages: 3389
| Good evening,
I would like to open discussion about cheating policy in your clan if that's okay. I hope we can stay polite, appropriate and fair in this topic as I have no mood for fighting but I just wanna know whats going on because I'm quite confused.
First of all I am really confused the way you deal cheaters these days because back in my days cheating was never allowed on server and zero tolerance in cheating was one of best parts of this clan because I truly despise cheating and that is reason why I bother to write this whole thing.
Cheating always led to permanent ban or in some cases for different punishment and it was good policy and everyone was aware of it.
Secondly I am confused by the way you treated skiezo, and at this point I have to say that skiezo I got nothing against you. You unbanned him without any kind of punishment or what I saw even much of a talk with him, maybe you did private discussions, I don't know. However stories about little brother playing game and installing cheats when you were away has existed in this game ever since it was made and I don't believe any of those.
Anyway, I'm sure management team got good reasons to unban him without punishment and I don't need to see him being punished but maybe you should think about consequences? If I decide to install hacks on my PC and go play your server and get banned, all I have to do is come here and tell it was my non existing little brother and BANG, in theory you should be fair and square and unban me as well, I wasn't guilty for it after all but it was my lil bro I invented in panic.
That is my opinion and message you send to cheaters and everyone and it is really really just something I can't even think reasonable words for..
Third thing that makes me wonder is that you installed this autoban system knowing it might cause some of members and regular players getting caught for hacks. Now when that happens all you do is tap the player to back and say "No worries it's all fine". It makes management team look like idiots on my eyes and I can't be only one(?) Yes I know I said I wanted to be polite but that had to be said and lesser minded would have been even more offending I think.  Also I talked with Seaturtle and asked why unban skiezo and he said me that this is different because he never had chance to actually cheat on server. I hope it occured to all of your minds that autoban system never lets people cheat on server and that is why it is called autoban system but it doesn't mean that they would not have cheated.
Anyway I am just concerned about the path this clan is lately been going towards to and I would like to get some sort of clarifying for these matters so that I don't have to start find new server which has correct policy towards hackers.
And as said I'm sure skiezo has reason why he is not banned or punished but maybe management team could post report which lead to this conclusion and solution?
I'm sure I can't be only one wondering it and also if I knew reason why this is the way you solved it, it would make me feel lot more comfortable playing on server knowing that cheaters still get what they deserve.
Best regards Sher
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| wedseck | Date: Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 20:09:09 | Message # 2 |
 17
User
Messages: 523
| well first of all thank you you still care much in all those years for IA!!;)
and i understand ur opinion and i got some second thoughts too!
but you are kinda retarded to cheat at your own clan if you knew the consequences
although, if your brother plays at your account, he prolly saw the name #IA|Skiezo
and he joined IA(what are to odds seriously!?) you wouldnt cheat if
your brother can be banned.
but like you said, the managment team prolly discussed this well
i was not really around at that discussion. but for some players like skiezo
i think they deserve a second change. altough his explain is kinda blurr
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| Sherclock | Date: Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 20:16:10 | Message # 3 |
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Coffee and cake specialist
User
Messages: 3389
| Quote well first of all thank you you still care much in all those years for IA!!;)
Would be a shame to find new server that is like IA because of loose treatment against cheaters. Already removed this site from favo's and server as well but then I thought I gotta ask reason for current situation before leaving totally.
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| wedseck | Date: Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 20:36:26 | Message # 4 |
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17
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Messages: 523
| Quote Sherclock I thought I gotta ask reason for current situation before leaving totally.
then are more things in your mind right? u wouldnt leave IA for only hacks
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| Twisterxz | Date: Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 20:43:55 | Message # 5 |
 Minecraft Server Admin
Founder
Messages: 2470
| Sher,
First of all, im really suprised to read this actually.
I understand your opinion about the unbanning of skiezo.
Secondly, what happened? Seems like you just dont enjoy or maybe hate our server? May I ask what happened? You can pm or whatsapp me if you want
Twisterxz
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| Milek | Date: Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 20:52:25 | Message # 6 |
 19
User
Messages: 260
| Thank you for the post.
Every situation is unique and therefore should be treated uniquely. Skiezo is a member not a random hacker wondering around the server. We have our doubts and had a discussion, but decided to go this way this time because of several reasons. I am not sure if I am allowed to discuss this here but feel free to contact me on X-Fire.
But I can share my thoughts:
1.How stupid would you have to be to cheat on your own server while knowing about the autoban system?
2.One cannot be judged just based on the fact that you 'do not believe it' because its a cliche (think about court in real life)
3.I think banning a member just like that is way more harsh and unfair than unbanning him with a grave warning about this (if anything related to cheating occurs again, it wont be a long talk). The autoban system works quick, so no greater harm was done.
4. And no, in theory you will get a pemanent ban while using cheats on the IA server
I take cheating extremely seriously just like you, but I think you are a bit overreacting. I feel we made the right desicion unbanning him. Do you really think Skiezo is a cheater? I do not.
It was made clear we do not have any tolerance against cheating and he is walking on thin ice and has everyones attention. Atleast mine.
I get your confusion, we had a good talk about this aswell  No disrespect but this is not a reason to change your community. I can assure you we do NOT tolerate hackers and this will not change. Was not an easy desicion but try to put yourself in Skiezios place.
As far as the autoban system goes, I can't really say anything because I was not involved in that and I have not seen any members patted on their backs as you said.
Please re-consider and see you around Sher, once again, thank you for the post. Curiousity is understandable.
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| Guevaraold | Date: Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 21:26:43 | Message # 8 |
 18
User
Messages: 980
| Quote Sherclock (  ) maybe you did private discussions, I don't know.
Yes. We're still discussing this matter. And without announcing any results of that discussion, I can say we're still divided and haven't formed a conclusion/solution to this issue. Hopefully we will reach it soon, and then we will announce it in general.
Nevertheless, thank you for your opinion and your concerns. It good to see an ex-member being this concerned with his former clan.
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3 Miles up, 3 Miles down!
Xfire: 123blaze123
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| Sherclock | Date: Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 21:27:01 | Message # 9 |
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Coffee and cake specialist
User
Messages: 3389
| Quote u wouldnt leave IA for only hacks
Yea I easily could, I have played this game for 10 years soon and reason I have not been busted is because I have never used cheats, don't even know how to install one as it come to that. And any player who decides to cheat old game like this and ruin it for others deserves the worst. You can ask marx and sea how angry I was on server yesterday while talking to them and I still am but trying to do this polite way.
Thanks for your opinion Milek,
1. Im not entirely sure skiezo knew about the autoban feature, I know it was mentioned on announcements at forums but what I have observed not all of IA members read forums daily or even weekly. Skiezo probably won't respond in this topic at all unless someone tells him that this topic exists.
2. So you are fully trusting word of a guy who got busted from cheating? As far as I know the suspect is always the one with least credibility. And as much as its a cliche using that brother excuse is so overly used it should be just labeled as instant lies.
3. I also wanna point out that Assassin's case was actually very similar to this and he infact was a member of our clan, not a random hacker and got punished from what his brother did. Also he confessed it by himself if I don't remember badly wrong. But as said I am not here to demand ban for skiezo, I just wanna know that my favorite server still treats cheaters like cheaters should be treated.
4. Banning a member may be harsh, but right now you guys gave him no punishment and I doubt you even talked to him about it. So here is a fine example of the "pats on the back" that I was talking about. As if anybody would be stupid enough to install cheats again after being caught once.
Also once again, I don't really much care about skiezo's treatment, if management team had fair and good reasons to unban him why not tell those reasons us? I mean something else than a hunch that he is not cheater..
I have real life friend I have known for 16-17 years now and we used to do scrim wars a lot in past. One day he got caught from hacks and I tried tell people that he wasn't hacking. Didn't even bother to watch demo made out of him because I trusted him. Well after few days when people still claimed he was cheating I watched the video and he was obviously wallhacking. After that there is only one player I trust that do not cheat in this game and that is me.
E: Add your rules that also cheats installed by your little brothers or sisters will most likely lead to permanent ban 
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Message edited by Sherclock - Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 21:31:39 |
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| Pleiades | Date: Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 21:32:57 | Message # 10 |
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Shercie&JT<3
User
Messages: 6175
| I agree with Sherclock on this one. The zero tolerance rule worked best. It's pathetic that you unban someone who got on your server with hax. Even if he says it was his brother. Thats's like getting a speeding ticket and object: "Oh my younger brother did that". As if they'd believe that without any proof. It makes you guys look kinda dumb (sorry for expressing it that way) Or maybe naive is a better word. It's the excuse I've seen the most :')
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| Milek | Date: Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 21:42:16 | Message # 11 |
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19
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Messages: 260
| I get your point/points and I agree on several of them aswell. But you have to try to see the other side of this also. That was a good example Sher(about your friend), but not everyone is automatically a cheater. I think it's a matter of discussion and mercy.
You may think we are idiots, but I am not entirely sure banning a member like that would not be labeled as 'idiotic'. It is a very hard case in my opinion. Lots of unanserwed questions and doubts. As it comes to your concern Sher, I once again have to say: cheating is not something toleranted here. Be patient and wait a bit, I am sure we will post an official conclusion of this matter. Previous is just my own thoughts.
I am hoping to see Skiezio on the forums soon, as it will show he is determined to explain and take part of this matter. As you said it is an old game and to ban a regluar member like that would not be the smartest desicion. Atleast without any proper discussion.
I hope my posts helped to understand a bit or calmed you down/gave atleast some kind of info and you will stay with us
Edit: Actually a very good idea about adding to the rules in my opinion.
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Message edited by Milek - Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 21:44:04 |
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| Seaturtle | Date: Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 21:45:22 | Message # 12 |
 18
User
Messages: 963
| Gooooooooood
evening,
Well ok here we go, I’ll give my opinion, since what I’ve said to you in the server isn’t
really worth calling a “talk”. I’d rather call it an succinct answer on the
question you gave me about unbanning Skiezo and the Assassin case. An answer
which I couldn’t even formulate full and correctly since you already left in
anger. The server wasn’t the right place to argue anyway. Glad we can argue in
a decent way here, and hopefully it will stay that way (knowing that we can not
expect everyone to agree with eachother).
I don’t know what you’ve heard from your companion about the discussion in officers
forum, but like I’ve already stated there, it’s a difficult case in my eyes. I haven’t
been able to experience how things happened back in the days and especially cases
like this. I know (in what I’ve heard) that the little brother thing seems to
be an excuse used a lot in Wolfenstein, and probably the whole gaming industry.
And this is something you can hardly control or verify, so what to do?
What was said from the beginning, is that this is a case like the Assassin kickout case.
Well, that has been said by the people that proclaim Skiezo should stay banned.
I’ve never really known the details of the whole Assassin case (I was a regular
member at that time, and I can still remember that there was said that the
details of the kickout wouldn’t be reveiled unless Assassin would say it
himself). All that I knew was that he got caught cheating in Axe server (if im
right) and our own server eventually. WhatI said in the server, is that Skiezo’s case is different because he couldn’t cheat in the server itself cause he got autobanned by technology. Ofcourse this
sounds stupid in first place, cause he already got banned by the evidence the
system had. (but i’ll come to the point about autoban system later). And here
is where the differences are, and things probably get personal. If the Assassin
case was exactly the same, he shouldn’t had a ban or kickout or so in my
opinion either. Cause then no cheats really got used in the server and you’ve
not been playing with a player who cheated right at your side. I know, this somehow sounds stupidbut in my opinion the whole autoban system and reviewing cases like this is a
grey box anyway.
I really countenance that you’re concerned about IA. But I really can’t understand the
commotion that is being made about this, and that you’re already saying that IA
is going down because of one case. Ofcourse I could understand if cheaters are
taking the lead in our servers and aren’t getting punished. You’re stating that
every cheater can get away with it like this. Well that’s not true. Like said, it’s
a hard case with, in the picture, someone that’s smart enough not to cheat in
our server knowing about the autoban and further consequences. And if I’m wrong
about this (one seems to cheat), then the opposite will be shown quickly and
the person in question will get thrown out/banned.
And perhaps it sounds like I’m giving Skiezo priority cause it’s a member, but that’s not what
im doing. It’s a difficult also without knowing who the “cheater” is. That’s why
I stated this autoban system as a grey box according to such cases. Perhaps i’m
just to nice for humanity and/or naïve to say in my opinion that such cases should get unbanned. But that’s apersonal thing and also the reason why this case was closed not by only one
mans decision.
Its sad to see if a case like this would make you leave our community (technically you’re out the clan, but everybody appreciates yourpresence ;)). Butwho would blame you to make that decision. Its you’re decision and lets say this
is still just a game, I already feel quite bad about the fact I used time for
this, time in which I could have done my parents or friends a favour. But
hey, im just another hypocrite human.
Hopefully I made you clear what my reason was to form my opinion about this case. I admit that you got reasons to argue and make up the points you do, perhaps autoban isnt the right technology to use. according to commotion around such cases.
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Words like violence, break the silence.
Message edited by Seaturtle - Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 21:46:06 |
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| Meizi | Date: Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 21:47:12 | Message # 13 |
 Generalissimo
User
Messages: 7753
| We've had many member over the years, whose "brother" have installed cheats and connected with them to our server and yet, the member got banned and kicked out of the clan. I just wonder what makes this case different? Is it because management team has changed and how the things are dealt has changed? I don't know, but what I'd like to know what are the proves given to say that it wasn't in fact Skietzo himself who cheated but his brother? Who can know for sure?
And if the discussion is still going on in the management forums, why the "unban-results" was given already? It's something what should be given when the final verdict is made, not when the discussion is still going on.
And like sherlock mentioned, I have nothing personal against Skietzo, I just have a problem with how this whole situation was handled.
Ps. I cheat, ban me pls.
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Message edited by Meizi - Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 21:50:55 |
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| Milek | Date: Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 21:57:12 | Message # 14 |
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19
User
Messages: 260
| I think it is ridiciloous to judge the whole management team and the community in a whole just based on 1 case. Its just disrespectful really. The matter is still discussed and the final desicion is yet to be made. The unban was a bit rushed I think but keeping him banned for approximately a week would also be stupid.
I am really anxious about this as it is getting this much attention and do my best to get a fair result out of this. Keep your calm and stay tuned. Always easier to judge others rather than having empathy
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| Dime | Date: Tuesday, 08/04/2014, 22:05:27 | Message # 15 |
 Counterstrike:GO Admin
User
Messages: 3103
| i have been against this unban since i saw the topic and the ban on the list. I have been quiet about it in public but for obvious reasons im going to post my thoughts in a matter of a quote from officers forums that i made so please excuse me if it looks a bit out of context.
"Its more like a matter of our clans belief. WE have strict 0 tolerance policy for these cases and while i agree that since its so unclear of what actually happened, ban is too harsh. HOWEVER i do think the appropriate punishment should have been a clear kickout and unban then. WE lose more people than just skiezo if we allow this to just pass through our fingers. So its a nobrainer. I also agree that the decision was made with haste and the discussion wasnt actually over yet. And as i said this is exactly what we are doing right now, throwing regulars away by our poor management of situations like these. We either lose a hacker or we lose regulars because they dont want to support a clan that has cheaters in it. "
Those are my thought and believe you me not the only thought i've had about this in the officer forums. And as stated the discussion IS still going on despite the fact that skiezo was unbanned.
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[02:06] iA! Dime': cos i think its ridicilous how our bots shoot me 3x head
[02:06] jeup: you just suck
[22:23] #IA|JT': lol shut up and leave me alone xD
[22:23] iA! Dime': haha
[22:23] #IA|JT': never ask me something anymore!
#IA|qweq* - Your Rifling Was So Epic That I Could Fap To It
(3ahed123): my ass hurting me
[21:15] iA! Dime': whats ur relationship with ET atm? :D
[21:15] jeup: its really a deep going relationship that i have going on right now its all cool like the hippos in africa
[21:16] iA! Dime': thats what i was going for...
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